50 years later, how school-prayer ruling changed America

Fifty years ago this week, on June 25, 1962, the U.S. Supreme Court declared school-sponsored prayers unconstitutional in the landmark case Engel v. Vitale.

Public outrage was immediate and widespread. For millions of Americans, the Court had “kicked God out of the schools,” to use a phrase that has entered the culture-war lexicon.

Five decades later, Engel continues to be reviled by a good number of televangelists and politicians who take every opportunity to rail against the “godless public schools.” Eliminating school-sponsored prayer, they argue, set America on the road to moral and spiritual ruin.

Over the years, the absence of “school prayer” has been linked to almost every social ill, from schoolhouse shootings to drug addiction.

One popular YouTube video asks why God doesn’t do something about the terrible things happening to our students in public schools — and a deep voice replies in ominous tones, “I am not allowed in schools.”

That the high court’s prayer ruling is to blame for America’s decline makes a compelling narrative, raising millions of dollars for advocacy groups year after year.

But here’s the catch: It isn’t true.

Let’s start by stating the obvious: The moral state of the union can’t be correlated to the frequency of government prayers in schools or anywhere else. After all, in the era of daily teacher-led prayers, America had any number of social ills, including segregated public schools.

Just as it would be absurd to blame teacher-led prayer for racism or other moral failures in the 1950s, it makes no sense to blame the absence of such prayers for our moral failures today.

But the Big Lie in the school-prayer debate is the false charge that the Supreme Court expelled God or eliminated praying from public schools. In reality, the Court has never banned prayers in schools — in Engel or in any other decision.

Instead, the Court ruled that, under the establishment clause of the First Amendment, “it is no part of the business of government to compose official prayers for any group of the American people to recite as a part of a religious program carried on by government.”

In other words, state-sponsored prayers in schools are unconstitutional. Students, on the other hand, are fully free to pray in public schools — alone or in groups, as long as they don’t disrupt the school or interfere with the rights of others.

It’s true that in the aftermath of the Engel decision, some school administrators took things too far by prohibiting constitutionally protected student religious expression. Of course, other administrators and school boards practiced civil disobedience by continuing school-sponsored religious practices in defiance of the Court’s ruling.

But in recent decades, most public school officials have begun to get religion — and prayer — right. They (finally) understand the difference between government speech promoting religion — which the establishment clause prohibits — and student religious speech, which the free-exercise and free-speech clauses protect.

Visit most public schools today and you are likely to see students praying around the flagpole, attending religious club meetings, giving each other religious literature, saying grace before lunch, talking about their faith in class discussions and in other ways expressing their religious convictions.

In fact, there is more student religious expression in public schools today than at any time since the 19th century. Far from being “kicked out,” God goes to school today through the First Amendment door.

Critics of the Court’s ruling in Engel v. Vitale do have one thing right: The decision changed America — just not in the way they think.

Gone are the days when one faith (historically Protestant Christianity) dominated the public schools and the public square. Today, thanks in no small measure to Engel, we are closer than ever to the full religious freedom envisioned by the First Amendment — a level playing field for people of all faiths and none.

130 thoughts on “50 years later, how school-prayer ruling changed America

  1. Was prayer taken out of our homes, was it taken out of our hearts, was it taken out of our mouths. Who is responsible for teaching your children, is it the teacher, is it the school, or is it you. You say you dont have time to pray to God before you leave home in the morning, you dont have time to teach your children about the Lord, you wait for the Pastor to teach them when you take time to go to church. II Timothy says, YOU study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. If you study, if you teach your children, if you show them how to live before God, if you teach them how to pray and believe, not just for themselves, but for the other students at school. I guarantee that if you begin to spend time in the presence of the LORD, and train up your child in the way they should go, Prov. 22:6, things will begin to change. Take time and spend time in His presence.

  2. CORRECTION:

    SCHOOLS WERE NOT SEGREGATED IN 1962. BROWN VS. BOARD OF EDUCATION DESEGREGATED PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN AMERICA ON MAY 17, 1954.

  3. In 1962 anti prayer proponents understood that the worship of God via Christianity was formidable foe and only a co-opted court would be Marxisms only chance at destroying that culture in the schools once and for all.

    Most importantly the spiritual realm understands authority and when someone with legitimate authority engages the children in Christian prayer, it is much more effective and potent. Thus through the authority of school officials, Christian prayer calls down the grace necessary for the school to function at its highest and best level and are otherwise spiritually unarmed against evil. So yes, God was kicked out of school, practically speaking, in their fear of lawsuits, they denied God’s mere mention, let alone student led prayer which had to be fought in courts just to have that bare minimum of right.

    Evil will only worsen until this changes. May God have mercy on us.

    • Amen , I can only hope and pray that the children of today believe in God. I know my daughter believes that he is with her all the time especially here in Chicago public school’s. The teachers unions here in Chicago is so far to the left that their Greed is more important then our children’s education and to speak of God is like nails on a Is chockboard to them and what they stand for as a result my daughter’s teacher is quitting the school because of what they want her to teach like CRT and Trans influence information since the already took the police from most of the schools and made it much more unsafe.
      I pray they bring God back in the schools they need him in their daily lives. The kids I’ve seen around the neighborhood are getting worse and stealing packages from people’s porches and not even caring about anything.

      • No doubt that satan won a huge victory that 25th day of June, in 1962. And yes, that, at least in part, set in motion this slippery slope of events that has effectively shut God out of, just about every American institution, in this Great Republic! Not long ago, we could honestly call ourselves The UNITED States!
        God’s Word says that a HOUSE DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF WILL FALL (not might fall). With that said, WE THE PEOPLE , are vastly of the same faith fabric. That is …”Jesus Christ believing.. over 70% of us in America BELIEVE THE BIBLE. We have this commonality that UNITES US.. we’re imperfect and we love Jesus!
        Satan is THE LIAR, The FATHER OF LIES. 2nd Chronicle says” If my people, whom are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek MY FACE and turn from their wicked ways, THEN I’LL HEAR FROM HEAVEN AND HEAL THEIR LAND!

    • ” the spiritual realm understands authority and when someone with legitimate authority engages the children in Christian prayer, it is much more effective and potent.”

      So what happens when the teacher is Jewish? Or Muslim? Or Hindu? Or Buddhist? Or Sikh? Or Wiccan? Or Asatru? Or follows a version of Christianity that you don’t agree with? Do we really want to endure the bloodshed that Europe went through over which version of Christianity is the correct one?

  4. I agree with many of the things you are saying. However, I have no doubt, and strongly believe that God, prayer, and Bible reading played a huge role in keeping the schools, somewhat civilized, compared to how they are today.

    • So why don’t God, prayer, or the Bible stop child molestation in churches? Hell, why didn’t they stop Dylann Roof from shooting up that church in Charleston, SC?

  5. IF the US has really been dividing people by race, religion, and class since its founding then the civil rights movement, women’s rights, the Civil War, open arms to foreigner and refugees was all just a false narrative I suppose then. Why so many foreigners would come to a place of division? We are being divided by the great deceiver who creates a victim mentality, fake news, hidden agenda, and a society full of lust. Our God-fearing ancestors tried to protect us from turning into Sodom and Gomorrah but just like Israel in the Old Testament who kept turning its back on GOD time after time and many warning was finally divided and scattered to all nations. The entire core of America from its laws to its way of life and currency debunk your false narrative because America was built on the foundations of the Christ, 10 Commandments, and the word of GOD and that’s a fact. Rember people even the devil quoted scripture to Jesus. YAWEH come back to America!!!

    • I agree. The naysayers will shake their heads and defend what they call the separation of church and state but how many school shootings did we have before God was told He had no place in the classroom?

      • On May 18, 1927 Andrew Kehoe killed 38 elementary schoolchildren and 6 adults, and injured at least 58 other people, even with forced prayer in schools.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

        Nobody said God was not allowed in school, like anyone has that authority anyway, the supreme court ruled it’s not the schools place to force children to pray.

        Here’s a list of school shootings which happened before the 1962 supreme court ruling. It was too long to post here so you have to see the web site:

        https://www.k12academics.com/school-shootings/history-school-shootings-united-states

        • None of those shootings were “mass shootings” and most were carried out by adults who felt betrayed or were fired. Most of the rest were plain accidents. For those three hundred years in record, Only twenty, more or less, were executed by students who had specific targets, whether students or adults.

          And also, your website is not even a reputable source for any serious investigation. Notice that each report didn’t have any specific source. Someone could clearly have made that stuff up, from thin air. Also, and as Michael Matt commented recently, in the 40’s or 50’s, just to cite any year previous the juridical landmark decision, every kid in Midwest America, 50 years ago grew up around guns, but nobody was shooting up their classmates. No, nobody was indiscriminately blasting away at a convenience store. Why not? I think you should ask that question maybe because the guns were literally everywhere, much more than now… The thing is that we got some mental health problems.

          • If you’ve seen these kids multi-colored hair, everything’s pierced, and vacant eyes, plugged ears, plugged who knows what. We got kids struggling with absolute depression and hopelessness, and struggling with porn, and not knowing even how to date or how to even hold hands in public.

            We got some mental health problems, but that doesn’t get to the bloody question. Why are all the kids going nuts? Why are the kids suffering from all this mental health disease? 50 years ago all kids had dads and we went to church every Sunday, they knew which bathroom to use me shooting anybody. And what’s going on then in these public school classrooms, can we ask that? Is that okay? Or is that racist? What’s going on in there? Where are these educators? They have access, unfettered access to the kids for seven hours a day, five days a week. What’s going on in there? I think maybe we should look at that.

          • I’m glad you pointed out none of them were mass shootings and nobody was shooting up their classmates 50 years ago. That’s a great point you make. I’m certain it’s not the point you were trying to make but you just made an excellent case for the need of gun control. It never once crossed your mind that there weren’t mass shootings back then because the guns weren’t capable of shooting 30 people in a minute? Prayer/God has literally nothing to do with it, but the common trend is the more that guns progressed mass shootings went right up with it

    • America was not founded on the Christian bible or the Ten Commandments or the word of God. It wasn’t even founded exclusively by Christians. In fact, the founding fathers said explicitly, in the Treaty of Tripoli (1796), that:

      “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”.

      This treaty was ratified unanimously without debate. We are a secular nation with secular laws based on English common law and ideas born during the Enlightenment.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enlightenment

  6. I disagree with your stance. Prayer sets a stance and state of mind. Prayer was the best part of class and even the BADDEST students complied. Yes that says a lot because I grew up in the “hood”.
    We’ve told God we don’t need you here so that they can penetrate our children with perversion through lessons.
    Jesus is my Lord and Savior so I will speak on Him. He loves and accepts all people. He hung with the sinners, He didn’t condemn them. But He didn’t enable them and He didn’t allow them to disrespect His Father, our Father.
    I said that to say that He belongs in our schools. He’s is the ultimate example of how to treat your neighbor which is one of the most important lessons every child learns at school. Maybe if he was invited back children would be less amped to shoot their neighbors(classmates). Those school prayers released love and focus. And each student had the opportunity to pray to THEIR god even if it wasn’t my God.
    That was fair.

    • You’re so right I grew up at the very end of school prayer and it is ridiculous that the assumption is that prayer accomplishes nothing these things would happen regardless. that just goes to show you how clueless some people are and their assessments of things If we don’t have a moral responsibility to teach our children to pray then the school doesn’t have a moral responsibility to feed them every day where does it end how do you draw A-line between what is acceptable and what is not. they pick and choose the things that they want to engage the children in school and take out one of the best things that ever happened and I wonder how many school shootings went on in the forties and the fifties and the early sixties I bet not many These kids are all lost because they have no God and it’s even predicted in The Bible how many will lose their love and their hearts will grow cold

      • We have the moment of silence in our classes where you can pray all that you want. You can also pray before you leave your house, on the bus, at your locker, and before you eat lunch. If you want to pray and believe in prayer then you have that right. Do not try to force everyone to pray. It should be a choice because we are individuals with different beliefs.

    • I agree with you 100%. Prayer or communication with God has always been a primary necessary necessity for mankind. He is the source of our strength our intellect our decision making our everything because He made and knows everything. The problem is man thinks they are so independently intelligent that it’s not necessary for all to even believe or speak to Him. It’s a shame that some people even think that their level of intelligence is more sufficient than God’s instruction. But one day we all will be given the opportunity to “speak” to Him whether we want to or not when the natural life is over and give an account for everything we did with all the intelligence that He gave us.

      God bless you for standing up for the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! I pray he blesses u tremendously and opens the eyes of all mankind to love Him.

      With the love of God, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ
      Amen!

    • Based on what you just said prayer only lasts a few minutes in your mind. And I quote” Prayer sets a stance and state of mind”, so, if you pray at home before going to school, by the time you get to school that prayer that you did at home is obselet? How long does it last when you do it at school, until lunch? The bible tells us to pray without ceasing and it is done silently. The issue is not that prayer is not allowed in school, the issue is Christians wants to make a show of it. They want to do the exact thing the bible tells us not to do, Matthew 6:5, And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners “, TO BE SEEN BY EVERYONE.

      • Hey, Chris. You’re showing that “intelligence” the former writer was talking about. You should just quit before you sink some more.

  7. I can understand the perspective of separation of church and state since public schools are run by the government. What I fail to understand is why if someone chooses to pray at school and doesn’t ask anyone else to join them why it’s such an issue. I can’t help but feel if it were anyone other than a Christian praying, no one would have anything to say about it.

    • This analysis is seriously flawed, written like a slick con-artist who can twist the truth to hide the truth! In fact, Engle vs Vitale signaled the end of the Christ-centered Blessings that were bestowed upon this nation, and upon which our federal government was fundamentally created by predominantly Christian founders, and unilaterally established throughout the United States. All of our founding documents and even our currency, public buildings, military and Congressional operations, federal, state, and civic organizations, and even our public holidays—all fully acknowledged we were “One Nation Under God!” But not anymore! There is an enormous correlation between “cause and effect.” All subsequent SCOTUS rulings, including legalizing abortion, was predictable after removing and diminishing our national allegiance to Jesus Christ. Our moral decline has now become a fatal malignancy that is spreading unabated from Washington DC today.

      • Agree with you completely! The start down that path of no prayer in schools led also to other bans of God in schools, like the 10 Commandments and the Bible itself. (which happens to be a good book of history)

      • interesting how you take one sentence out of the pledge of allegiance to make your point that this is a Christian Nation, well if it is then it failed from the beginning. The very next few lines confirm this… indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”. Indivisible….unable to be divided or separated. The US has been dividing people by race, religion, and class of people since its founding! Liberty…..the state of not being imprisoned or enslaved. Ohhh…really do I even need to address this. Justice….the quality of being fair and reasonable. Man, this is really too easy…..! FOR ALL. The USA is not a christian nation. Christ came so that all men can be saved, no matter their race, religion or class. Christ came to give us the LIBERTY to choose HIM or not, I Corinthians 12. And when Christ returns he will bring JUSTICE, he will judge everyone equally and it will be for ALL!

      • Not everybody in America is Christian. Should say, a Jewish student, or a Muslim, or a Wiccan, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist student be compelled to participate in Christian prayer? What happens when the teacher leading the prayer session is of one of those religions?

        Even within Christianity, there are over 2,000 different sects, denominations, not to mention just plain cults, etc, who can’t agree on which interpretation of which version of which Bible is the correct one. And you really wanna inflict that on the schools?

        Public schools exist to educate, not to proselytize- to teach, not to preach. They have enough to do without being expected to teach your particular version of Christianity, when not everybody follows it.

  8. Nobody willingly and knowingly submitted to torture and death for you but Jesus, no one else ever will again. That’s the difference. That’s how you know. That is not a human instinct. Tit for tat my fellow humans. None of us would, you’re full of s**t claiming so.

    • Very sad that’s so many people you know something at least about the Bible or God don’t realize that he’s the most important thing we need in our life our personal life rnation our country our world not just acknowledgement but following and Obey because he is our only protection from Satan who wants our soul and has nothing to offer but Darkness and destruction so this sounds like a very slick and Sly way of trying to level out our need for God I close with this a people who forget and that means to turn away from and follow our human instincts and feelings instead of Truth a nation who forgets God will be destroyed meaning we will destroy ourselves by our evil nature and Satan’s help

      • Good Morning to my fellow human beings, created by the creator, universe/God.
        I think, people/supreme court doesn’t know where is GOD. It is right in front of us.
        It sees, listens to us all the times. Why we indulge with bad things. Example, When cop car is parked on side of hwy, every one follows speed limit. Same way, we are to follow 10 commandments. If we look from this point of view and NOBODY WILL DARE to go against these rules out of school/life golden rules.

        If someone does adultery, gets divorced, if 10 RULES WERE taught in schools, perhaps divorced rate will not be this high. WORLD
        NEED TO FORCE OUR GOVERNMENTS TO PUT THESE 19 RULES IN TEACHING CURRICULUM. LET US NOT CALL 10 COMMANDMENTS, BUT CALL THEM AS 10 GOLDEN RULES. THERE WILL NOT BE ANY OPPOSITION.
        EVERY DAY STUDENTS NEED TO BE REMINDED so that it gets embedded in their minds for life.
        God bless us all.

        God’s servant
        Gurdeep Singh

        • I don’t need to have a police car in sight to drive the speed limit. I do it because it’s the right thing to do. If you need the ever-present threat of eternal damnation to keep you from committing adultery or theft or murder, you aren’t a good person, you’re just afraid.

          • Yeah, no. Wrong. Truth be told you don’t know right from wrong and it comes from God and God alone. Man has twisted it over time like all things.

          • It isn’t my fear of God that motivates my morality, it’s my love of God — just as it is with every human being who has chosen to surrender their own self-serving will to God’s will. No one will ever know authentic freedom and peace who does not also know Christ. Truly, I wish and pray every person felt what I feel; that every person felt the tangible presence of God in their lives — including you.

          • Yes. Doing right because it is the right thing to do …not because you fear hell, fire, and damnation!
            Well stated…thank-you!!

        • Good point. There needs to be a moral framework in place for young developing minds. A moral conscience would have a chance to develop.

        • God is not an “It.” Please refer to at least one of His many names, but it will not be, “It.” – In Christ, Christina

      • Excellent comment! You are so right! The world fell apart as soon as Biden took office! We are now being invaded on our Southern border by millions of illegal aliens… The consequences of Biden’s political ignorance is a national disaster that will continue until 2024, and from which recovery will likely not be possible..

  9. So now teachers are teaching Critical Race Theory and the Whiteness of Teacher Education. Should we consider this similar to teachers leading a prayer? It appears the teaching division has replaced prayer.

    • Are they? If so, where are they teaching it? In which districts and in which grades? Which school boards approved it, and when?

      Your understanding of CRT is fully propaganda-driven. You aren’t only flatly, dead wrong– you also don’t know what you’re talking about.

      You should see to that.

    • what utter bulls**t. Which liars are you listening to? Critical race theory is a subject taught in graduate level law schools. No elementary or secondary school is teaching ‘critical race theory’.

      Teaching that the ‘whitewashed’ history books of the past, the kind that doesn’t bother mentioning the Tulsa massacre, or the Willmington Insurrection, the kind that lies about slavery being benign and about the ‘happy negros singing in the fields’, are the bullshit that they are is called teaching REALITY, not ‘critical race theory’.

      Real history shows how this nation was created by slave labor on land that was stolen from murdered natives. That’s the reality. Teaching anything other than that is a LIE.

      • That’s long over with for the overwhelming majority of Americans starting with the civil war to freedom of speech,integration and change. To say a all people must be punished and reminded of the past is divisive.
        Do we need to be reminded of all people’s morals and ethics.
        NO. The law is sufficient except in some liberal states.
        Morals, ethics, actions o f some people will never change, not do we need to be taught or reminded. Only God will be the eternal judge and ultimate condemnation. The law is here hopefully to enforce otherwise.

  10. So explain how a Colorado high school banned a group of students from praying, singing Christian songs, and discussing religious topics in their free time.

    • The problem wasn’t that the group was religious, it was that it was meeting at a prohibited time. At the school in question (Pine Creek High School, if you want to actually learn about the case), the rules state that “Noncurriculum-related groups, which include religious groups, are permitted to meet both before and after instructional time”, but not during. The club couldn’t meet during a free period in the school day because no club is allowed to convene in that time. The lawsuit was dropped after this was explained.

  11. If you study the Bible you realize prayer is vitally important, and to take it out of public schools actually will lead to problems. And if you study the Bible you see the truthfulness of it with the fulfilled foretelling of events such as Psalm 22 and Isaaiah 53 speaking of Jesus Christ our savior from sin if He is Lord of our lives, Jesus said the first line of Psalm 22 on the cross. Also the Bible includes foretold events yet to take place, or that have even taken place in our lifetime such as 2 Peter 3, or there are words that exactly align with reality in the United States in 2021 such as Romans 1. Prayer is vitally important because the Bible says for us to “Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.” I can acknowledge God through prayer, and through listening to His words in the Bible.

  12. This article is so full of rhetorical bullshit, its pathetic. No one got to vote And its publicly funded schools the government had no right to interfere at all. Then the statement made brings in segregation to curveball off the horrific acts that have happened in schools since prayer was denied. All a bunch of lies.

    • America was founded on Godly principles by men who feared God What the Supreme Court did was totally wrong The 10 Commandments gave direction insight an honor to those that followed them so so shameful what they did to America The guidelines of life were the 10 Commandments where you would learn Honor Trust & Respect for your fellow man or woman all of America needs to turn back to God his truth principles were the 10 Commandments our guidelines for life

    • Indeed, prior to this, having prayer and God’s word in public schools was ‘settled law” for hundreds of years. In fact, in the 1700s, the Bible was used to teach children how to read in their schoolhouses. God’s word has been the moral standard for mankind for millenium. Relly want racial equality? Put the Bible back in schools. God shows no favoritism. He commands we love one another as we love ourselves. Pretty simple. ALL ARE EQUAL at the foot of the cross.

      • However, despite the things, said by all three of you… It does not change the fact that the supreme court was justified by the United States Constitution to make it so that public schools, (funded by the government), should not and cannot be able to require prayer time or any religious showing. The First Amendment states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” therefore, regardless of anyone’s opinion, the supreme court made the right decision in removing religion from public schools. If it was to continue, it would VERY clearly go against the document that gives us the freedom and right to follow Christ. Jesus wouldn’t have done it that way, but Romans 13:1-2 says: “Obey the government, for God is the One who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the law of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow.”

        • How can you believe something that has been altered , revised and manipulated so many times?

          Fact: God didn’t create government.
          Fact: Government created God!

  13. Any one with any common sense at all can see that when the Supreme court ruled to take prayer out of school it opened the door for Satan, which, he comes to still, kill, and destroy. There has been destruction in the schools every since. Mass shootings, killing innocent children, drugs, children shooting each other, teachers molesting the students, and so many other bad things that had never happened in our schools before they kicked GOD out. He is our Savior, our shield, our protection. As you see by now, without Him, our schools are open to the wolves/Satan. Here is your answer to this problem: “LET ALL THE WORLD LOOK TO ME FOR SALVATION! FOR I AM GOD AND THERE IS NONE ELSE (Isaiah 45:22).

      • It was not taken out it was just removed from being mandatory or the students being forced to partake in it. Not everyone believes in religion and there’s more than one religion Jeffery a. Carmon. Students can still say prayers on their own time. The schools just can’t actively promote it or force others to partake.

    • The question should be why are we allowing a new religion to be taught? Evolution is a theory and in no way has a theory ever been declared a fact except, that’s exactly what we have done. We replaced God with a monkey. He told me He never was one.

  14. For those who can not wrap their heads around the Supreme Court ruling, or the Constitution, or the simple fact that prayer has NOT been banned in school, please consult your Bible: Matthew 6:5-6. We are clearly instructed to “not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others” but rather to “go into your room and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.” This is where we are also instructed to pray The Lord’s Prayer.

    What are you teaching your children when they are told that God is not allowed in school? That he is incapable of protecting them and being with them wherever they go? You teach them that he is an impotent, NOT all powerful, god.

    Remember the poem about Footprints? It’s like that. Shame on those who agitate!

    • Food for thought..
      The brain is to the body as the mind is to the soul. The eyes are the window to your soul. Be mindful of what your eyes see. Good verses evil in our world.
      God is the Prince of peace…Satan is the Prince of the air…so what travels thru the air? The internet.

      • And might I add cell phone signals, radio waves and a host of other things. Does that make it inherently evil? Is not the Internet used for streaming church services, researching educational issues ? Let us think fully before speech

        • May I ask, how is it that The Equality Act would extend Title IV of the 1964 Civil Rights Act protects sexual orientation and gender identity (SOGI) and does not support prayer in school? And is that fair? When my son brought a book home entitled, ” Tell Me Again How A Crush Should Feel by Sara Farizan” and several other books which were on the Principles favorite list. This was done without no hesitation. However, if a school teacher decides to hold a public prayer calling on Jesus, he could and would lose his job. That said, what are the consequence to the June 25, 1962, Engel v. Vitale Supreme Court decision? Or the Bible taken from the court house? Yes, there were racism, lynching, and so many other evil going on fifty years ago. But you who thinks that those court rulings did not have any major impacts on society today, you are sadly mistaking.

          • I totally agree with you…there are just somethings wic can’t be explained logically ….since the prayer have been removed..am not an indigene of America but I can jxt love reading bout u guys history …and I saw most of ure presidents were Christians …and genuine ones….but now America is jxt I don’t know….

    • Results speak for themselves. Now only a few participate. Dont know the quality of prayers offered by school but it did expose the whole school to the gospel of Jesus Christ. “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by me.”

  15. WHAT OTHER KIND OF PRAYER IS THERE??? You say this as though there are other prayers. God is the only one who hears and answers prayers, so why wouldn’t you want to be sure to pray a CHRISTAIN PRAYER. This way of thinking is exactly why there is no prayer in schools. It’s why abortion is legal, drugs are readily available and there is so much wrong in society today. I hope you are not a teacher, because what you believe would be a terrible thing to pass on to our children.

    • How is teaching children about freedoms, rights and liberties a bad thing? What people like you want is for your religion to be respected and damn everybody else.

      Let me add insult to injury here. Prove to me Christianity is the one true religion. You can’t, you believe it is, and that is fine FOR YOU. All religions say they are the 1 true religion. Remember the Christian Bible was screwed together on the order of a Pagan Emperor who was trying to unify his kingdom, many books were excluded because they didn’t say what he wanted people to believe. The penalty was death for going against his order. Sounds pretty Christian to me.

      • Any religion that believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and died for the sins of the world is the true religion, there’s no other way! No one can get to God unless you go through His Son.

      • Did you know that Islam also believes in Jesus Christ? Only difference is Christian faith believes him to be the messiah. Islam also holds Jesus in high regard and believes he will descend from heaven and fight the final battle, and judgment.

        • The difference between Islam and Christianity is that Jesus is God’s one and ONLY son, who dies for our sins and came back to life (conquering death) in order that we may have eternal life after this life. It does no one any good to believe that there was a man named Jesus. Everyone believes/knows this. What makes the difference is that Christians have a real relationship with Him. They don’t just know about Him. They KNOW Him personally!! That’s the difference and it’s a HUGE difference. Christians don’t only believe He is the Messiah…they KNOW He is.

        • Did you know there is new scholarship that points to the start of what is today called Islam, not to Mecca but the the Nabatean empire? Do you know that people conquered during the early Arab uprising spoke not of Islam, a new book or a new prophet? Islam is a lie perpetrated on the world.

          So what if they hold Jesus in high regard or think he is coming back. Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses claim Jesus too. Mormon claim he is the spirit brother of Lucifer and Jehovah Witnesses claim he is Michael the archangel. The Bible clearly warns if anyone preaches another gospel or another Jesus, them them be anathema.

          Islam is a syncretistic combination of Christianity, Judaism and paganism.

          • To the publisher of this article, you are working for the devil by saying taking prayer out of school was not the main beginnings of our decline, you convienently forgot to mention that they also took Bible study & religious text out also. Many kids in America only had ONE PLACE they had an opportunity to learn right from wrong, in school, as they were not getting that teaching at home! Even in school spelling books Bible verses were used as a vehicle in grammar so if you really want the whole truth out there, tell the whole truth!

          • That is not true! We do not have the same God. Muslims worship Allah who is actually Satan in disguise. The false prophet muhammad (small “m” because he is Satan’s disciple) was used by Satan to develop a religion that would try to destroy Christianity. All Muslims will eventually be destroyed by God.

      • Correction, if I may!
        Satan is “the prince of the powers of the air…the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience”
        Scripture does not refer to him as “the prince of the air.” (Eph 2:2)

      • Interesting observation, I wonder, how long and how much starvation is necessary before those of thought like these figure out the plow is hitched to the rear/rump of donkey to break up the fallow ground …
        JOHN

      • christainty has the only savior Jesus Christ all other religion have works involved for salvation not christainty.John 3:16
        “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

        Ephesians 2:8-9
        For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

      • Dude no one is shouting at u…since you are talking about freedom…where have that gotten us ..or you…kids now want to have sex at jxt 13 years becuz of freedom..if u’re 17 and haven’t fornicated u’re not among …all in the name of freedom kids now want to smoke …we really are not forcing Christianity…but check Ure history and find out what true Christians have done….e.g Martin Luther King Jr…

      • JOE…please get educated correctly on the history of the Bible’s origins. God dictated the first 5 books to Moses who happened to be adopted and given the best education of Egyptian royalty. Eye witnesses…It is not a fairy tale. The Dead Sea Scrolls, found about 1950, sealed in clay pots and dated 1,000 years prior to the oldest known manuscript. Isaiah Chapter 53 was word for word the same as the PRESENT Hebrew Bible with the exception of one word which changed no doctrine or teaching . Isaiah prophecied the coming Savior hundreds of years before the actuality. Archaeologists and scholars around the world schooled in ancient writings, agree that the Dead Sea Scrolls deserve their given name –most valuable archaeological find of the 20th Century. Coins with King Herod’s image were also found. This is a drip in a large bucket. Search online to see the Scrolls. CHALLENGE: Evidence
        That Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell.

    • I think The world needs to know the truth about religion. It has a positive role in our life but, the commandments should have been promoted through positive morality and how humans are expected to act versus lieing to us.

  16. Dave, first of all, in defense of Ms. Wu, you say she mentioned “characteristics of Christ”. Have you ever looked into other world religions? Spoiler alert; many of Jesus’ actions are very similar to, if not the exact same, as the actions of other religions deities. How can one be 100% positive their’s is the 1 true and correct religion.

    I’ve been around the world, literally (twice). I’ve seen other religions in action. I’ll be damned if I can tell any real difference. Bare in mind, I was raised Christian (Protestant), and my father was a Church Elder. The last conversation we had concerning religion he told me your religious beliefs are based on faith. Faith in what you are reading and being told is the truth. That’s all religion is, a BELIEF! Nothing more, nothing less.

    • Every founder of every other religion is dead. You have to explain the empty tomb. You have to explain why men who feared for their lives at the during and after the crucifixion, deserting Jesus, suddenly become bold and proclaimed the gospel to the very people who had Jesus crucified.

      You claim belief and nothing more. It really isn’t that simple. Actually, it depends on the object of that belief. Believe in the wrong thing and your are doomed. Believe in the right thing and your are saved. Read Seeking Allah Finding Jesus if you want to see a good illustration of what one man found when exploring Christianity while being a devote Muslim.

    • Christianity isnt the first religion, but it is the first form of manipulation. Pagan or Hindu were the first religion.

      • Christianity started in the Book of Acts when the Holy Spirit indwelt believers. That’s the difference where the rubber meets the road. No other religion has Christ’s spirit within minds and hearts who love God…the people were called Christians first in Antioch.
        The roots of Christianity go back to before the first man and woman, before creation to the existence of a Holy and Just and eternal God. The first man and woman talked with and walked with this God. He is personality, mind, will, social, and rewards those who diligently seek him. Don’t diss faith. You use faith all the time….sitting down in a chair, planning to awaken in the morning. Faith is usually exercised with reasonable information. People who have never searched about the Dead Sea Scrolls–the greatest archeological discovery of the 20th Century– on line or read the Bible seem to have the worst to say about it.

  17. There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that relates to the Bible, nor any other religion. Our Constitution is purely secular as freedom of religion can only take place under a secular government. When the term “God” is used in other founding documents (God is not mentioned in the Constitution) it is never applied to a specific deity.

    • To Joe & Tom – Sir, you are partially correct, but you are greatly wrong! Everyone that signed the Constitution did so under, “In the year of our Lord…” This was a specific Deity – the Lord Jesus Christ, the sinless lamb of God foretold in the Jewish scriptures before Jesus was born with over 300 prophecies describing in strong detail the birth, life and death of the Messiah.

      • AZSixGuns,
        Have you read the Constitution? It clearly states: From Article VI, Clause 3; “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

        From the 1st Amendment; “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

        These are the only 2 mentions of religion, any type of religion, made in the Constitution. Besides, forcing your religious views on someone of a different faith IS NOT religious freedom. Yes all of the signers of the U.S Constitution were of one Christian denomination or another, so the Constitution was signed under the words “In the year of our Lord”. That DOES NOT establish the United States as a Christian nation. Do me a favor, before you reply, talk to a Constitutional Law Professor, and ask them about it. Check it out at: law.harvard.edu, law.cornell.edu, or constitution.congress.gov.

  18. Fannie Beiler on March 1, 2020 at 7:50 am you wrote: The Holy Bible and the Lord’s Prayer are not connected with religion. Religion is man’s interpretation of the Holy Bible, and the comment; on February 27, 2020 at 12:13 pm you said: Find on youtube: The devastation effects when prayer was removed from school.

    Either 1) you don’t want to read, or 2) you can’t. The Constitution very clearly RESTRICTS the federal government from meddling in an individuals religious beliefs, or non-beliefs. They CAN NOT support or deny ANY religious practices, provided they do not break any laws.

    The Supreme Court, in Engel v. Vitale ruled school sponsored/mandatory prayer is Un-Constitutional, it WAS NOT removed from school. Children have the right to pray, have religious discussions, etc, provided it does not interfere with the course of instruction and is not disruptive, but again, it can not be made mandatory. This ruling applies to ALL religions.

    • You wrote, “The Supreme Court, in Engel v. Vitale ruled school sponsored/mandatory prayer is Un-Constitutional, it WAS NOT removed from school.”

      Then why have coaches been fired for praying with their teams? Those praying were not forced or coerced.

      And, your point about it applying to all religions is not true as we see Islam being taught and allowances being made for it in schools. There have been suits brought by parents because of this. So, your statement is in error.

      • Allow me to break this down a little further for you.

        Coaches have been fired likely because holding prayers with their teams is seen as an endorsement of a particular religion- most likely Christianity- which is a violation of the ruling.

        Acceptions are made for other religions because it is required, it has literally ZERO effect on other students if someone misses a day of school to pray as their religion requires. Personally, I have no idea what point you were trying to make there.

        The ruling states that no one can be FORCED by administrative staff to partake in a GROUP prayer sponsored by the school. However, because of the first amendment, students are allowed to pray INDIVIDUALLY to whatever god they believe in whenever they see fit.

        This DOES NOT mean the god has been “removed from schools”, it only means that schools cannot openly endorse ONE SINGLE religion. This has NO effect on individual beliefs.

        I cannot possibly make this any more simple for you.

  19. Please, before you go spouting off about them “taking” prayer out of school, do yourself a favor, read 2 documents.

    1st, READ the U.S. Constitution. Article VI, Clause 3 and the 1st Amendment are the only parts of the Constitution to even mention religion.

    2nd, READ the U.S Supreme Court ruling on Engel v. Vitale @ either supremecourt.gov uscourts.gov.

    You, if you open your eyes and mind, and shut your mouth long enough to read these documents, you will clearly see two things;
    1) The U.S was NOT founded as a Christian nation. If it were, anyone of a different religious belief would either, a) not be allowed to be in this country, or b) they would be a 2nd class citizen.

    2) God was NEVER “taken out” of school. The Supreme Court’s ruling clearly states “mandatory” prayer is Unconstitutional.

    • Don’t be Bull horn guy- standing at the corner shouting. No one listens to bull horn guy. They are just a bully. If you want people to listen you engage conversation not shout at each other.

    • I could not have said it better. In America we have freedom from religious persecution. what about the children in schools who were forced to participate in prayers of another religion? the Jewish kids, Hindu, Muslim, and others.
      I think it would have been interesting if the other non-christian religions had mandated prayers.

  20. No we know you are a fool, unwise! I agree about not making it forced for love is not forced. Yet, there is nothing wrong with making Bible study an elective in a country that was founded on said Bible. Everything else is well, such as allowing prayer, the moment of silence and the pledge of allegiance.

    • Dave, first please show me in the Constitution were the United States was founded on “said Bible”. You can’t, because we were not founded on the Bible, or any other religious belief. Look up James Madison, the father of our Constitution. He, with assistance from Thomas Jefferson, wrote most of our Constitution and the original Bill of Rights. Madison VERY clearly out lined the 1st Amendment in an address to Congress when the Constitution was put up for ratification.

      Second; the U.S Supreme Court DID NOT ban prayer in school. They declared school-sponsored prayers unconstitutional in Engel v. Vitale.

      And before you go off half-cocked, I spent the first part of my adult life in the Marine Corps, sworn to “protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, from all enemies, both foreign and domestic”. the second part of my adult life in law enforcement, where I protected the people of this country from the morons who wouldn’t abide by that very Constitution.

      • I don’t want to start a fight, just simply seeing other people’s opinions. From my understanding of history, the United States of America was founded on Biblical values. Though it is not explicitly stated “the Bible”, we are still grouped together as one nation under God. As a U.S. Marine, you should understand that. My father served as a U.S. Marine for 25 years and now serves as a pilot for emergency medical transportation. As a Marine, he swore to fight under God for the safety of his country and for the defense of the Constitution. How is it fair to say that the Constitution was not Biblical?

        • Jennie, “One nation under God” was not coined until the 1950’s. James Madison, the man who wrote our Constitution, was an Episcopalian, but argued very successfully against establishing a single religion for every citizen of the United States. Of the more than 200 books, letters and documents he referenced while writing the Constitution, the Bible is NOT listed as one of them.

          As for your father, I am grateful for his 25 years of service. It shows a level of loyalty and love of this country, I’m afraid has dwindled slightly in recent years. But you check the oath of enlistment (for your father that would be the officers oath) @ NAVPERS 1070/601 (Rev.9-99) . Your father swore an oath to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States, not the Bible. NOWHERE in that oath does it state allegiance to God. The closing words are “So help me God”, these words are omitted if the person taking the oath is of a religion other than Christianity.

          • Did not President James Madison say, ” We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of government. Far from it. We have staked the future upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves and to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God? “

          • I would have to read the books you are speaking of. I know that some of the material referenced by the founders was pulled from the Bible. Constitution Alive! (David Barton of Wallbuilders.com and Rick Green) quotes studies that show that about 34% of the Constitution’s references are to the Bible, and another percentage is references that quote from books that reference the Bible. This may apply to the books you are speaking of too. Incidentally, I have found that people who read the Bible are more likely to recognize the references than people who don’t, just as someone who sees a movie is more likely to understand a pun about it or a meme drawn from it.

      • You know what. You were created by the Lord God himself. Look around, everything you have and see including the breath you breathe are all gifts from your maker. The Bible is a guide for all to read. It doesn’t matter what people put into place, God is still in charge. Not only has prayer been taken out of schools but abortions, better defined as murder is now legal. Drugs are so bad that they have been legalized. So really can you not see what has happened here. Where are the Ten Commandments? God’s law is the law and we would do good to follow it. Jesus is coming back and everything we are witnessing clarifies that very fact. Better get ready and stop reading all those man made books and turn to the perfect Word of God!!

        • Amen! Unfortunately the devil has deceived so many that, they don’t believe he exist, and if he can convince people that he doesn’t exist then the same people won’t believe that there is a Savior Jesus the Christ!!, because of hardened hearts. Pharoah was witness to the plagues of Egypt and still would not yield, unfortunately there are still many who have the same kind of hearts and won’t change, the best we can do is to pray for those lost souls that they will turn before it’s too late. God doesn’t want a single soul to go to hell but we all have free will, and thus have a choice where we spend eternity. I love all of you in this chat and pray for everyone.. that is all

          • Form of manipulation: sway others with fear. If God loves us. He will show himself and PROVE his existence, then except our savior. Putting fear into us, believe or else…. This screams bullshit.

          • Form of manipulation: sway others with fear. If God loves us. He will show himself and PROVE his existence, then except our savior. Putting fear into us, believe or else…. This screams bullshit.
            Why does it matter if we believe in him or not ?
            What does that have matter to save us? Doesn’t it make more sense that he will show his existence prove his worth and then save us?

  21. We should always use our 1st Amendment rights which are freedom of religion and freedom of the press. No I do not force my Christian views on anyone but this Country was founded on Christian principals and the first text book was The Holy Bible! Most importantly, people came to America so they could Worship God in freedom!

    • Then that same people turned around and tried to make people believe like they did.
      Freedom of religion means freedom of religion for everyone.

      • Reading the Bible and saying the Lord’s prayer is not forcing anyone to believe it. The Bible is the Lord’s Word and saying the Lord’s prayer is saying His Words. These two have nothing to do with religion.

        • Fannie you are missing the point, by more than a mile. Having ANYONE reciting the Lords Prayer, or any prayer for that matter IS a violation of that person’s 1st Amendment rights. It is FREEDOM OF RELIGION, not free to do it regardless of whether you agree with it or not. That is not how it goes. As a retired US Marine and combat veteran, I want people to enjoy the rights, not only I, but all 3 of my son’s and 19 other family members were willing to pay a price most people don’t want to think about, fought willingly to give them. And it is NOBODY’S business how they worship or not.

          • The Holy Bible and the Lord’s Prayer are not connected with religion. Religion is man’s interpretation of the Holy Bible.

          • Thank you for your service. But it is God’s business. He sacrificed more than any of us ever have. His Son not only served, but He died for everyone, not just you or I, but for the entire world! Would you sacrifice one of your sons for so many, that they might be saved? He had to pay a debt that He didn’t owe and we can never repay. He is our only hope in this godless time. Just remember who the enemy is. It’s not your neighbor or even the government it is satan who came here to kill, steal and destroy. I think he seems to be doing a pretty good job of it here in the USA. God loves you, not like the world does. He loves you enough to save you!

      • Hi Corey:

        Please search on line for The Dead Sea Scrolls …. 40 different authors of the Bible…yet the unity shows the power of God to move his servants to write it. God dictated the first books to Moses, since he wasn’t there at creation and neither were we or Darwin or Gaston. Paganism came when the population forgot their roots and Creator and the God of the Bible kept trying to call them back to his truth and ways through the prophets….The God who IS, who WAS, and IS to come. One man wanted someone to tell his brother to not come to hell. The answer was: “He has Moses and the Prophets. If he doesn’t believe them, he will not believe even if someone comes back from the dead.” Please read First John in the Bible, and see if it resonates with you and our world.

  22. Karla – Students are ALLOWED to pray, but they cannot be FORCED to pray. There is no need to put prayer “back” in schools, it is already allowed, what you seem to want is to CO-ERCE students to say a Christian prayer, and ONLY a Christian prayer. Please do tell, under our forced Christian prayer plan, how do you plan on handling Jewish students who REFUSE to participate in Christian prayers, or Jewish students who say JEWISH prayers instead ?

  23. The SCOTUS’ mistake was in going tribal. Rather It could have looked at that which all of good will share. “Ethical monotheism” is the principle that unites people of good will. . . the one principle, not necessarily the one god.

    ”Love your neighbor as yourself” is found in ALL faiths. The building blocks of L-Y-N-A-Y are the Ten Commandments or similar sets of ethical principles. All faiths call for respect and devotion to G-d, or to the wisdom of the elders. All relate honor and respect for parents as the surrogate for one’s relationship to the higher authority. All religions condemn killing, stealing, faithless marriages, libeling others, and lusting for what others have. We are all joined by One Principle.

    Many schools use a moment of silence in their morning exercises. How does the student use their moment of silence? It is up to them and their parents. It would be nice if they (& we) started the day with considering L-Y-N-A-Y.

  24. Karla, there is no “spin on it”. There was however, a supreme court ruling that it was unconstitutional and trampled on kids rights, their freedom of or from religion. While you believe school has gone to hell since prayer was taken out, nothing could be further from the truth. Prayer was NOT TAKEN OUT. The ruling simply meant that no one can be FORCED to pray to someone elses deity. This has been more difficult in small towns like mine where the majority of folks are Christian. If this is you, how would you like it if your children were forced to pray every morning but only if they took turns praying to other gods.. Muslim, Hindu, etc.. Evangelicals would be even more vocal!! It seems to me that Christians just want to force their God on everyone else. They either have a hard time understanding just what they are asking or they believe they are superior.

    • Christians do not define God. God IS. The Bible and the life of the Lord Jesus reveal Him to us. He is the ONLY God. He is love. He is relational, and, unlike the god of Islam, He has a Son. Christians simply agree with the Truth. (If you don’t agree, your argument is with the God of the Bible, not with me.)

  25. I’m not christian. I’m a perfectly fine human being who serves the community, is advanced in academics, knows right from wrong. Also, there are multiple religions. Which religious prayer would schools have then? We also say the pledge every day; serves the same purpose that you stated as a prayer would. Also there are some cases where school shooters were christian.

    People are allowed to pray if they want to. What you say is forcing people, including atheists and people of other religions, to pray. No offense to Christianity, I’d like to keep my freedom to not say things I don’t believe in and have to pretend I do.

    Not sponsored religion isn’t the problem here. Its how people are taught, by knowing whats right and wrong, what people should or shouldn’t do, respect, responsibility, integrity, excellence, caring, generosity, etc. These are not necessarily religious; they can be taught to anyone, separate of religion.

    • You just mentioned the characteristics of Christ. You dont believe because you do not see it right in front of you. I did not believe New York city was awesome until I went and saw it firsthand. Furthermore, it took me a long time to get there and all the great thoughts on the trip up never came close to my miraculous arrival to times square.

  26. Taking prayer out of the school hasn’t made the school stronger or weaker? Has it helped or destroyed our school system? I will prefer facts and statistics rather than opinions thank you.

  27. Sorry you can put any amount of spin on it that you want, but the bottom line is when prayer was taken out of schools there is a documented steady downward decline in behavior and academics in schools. Let’s put that theory to the test by putting prayer back in school. What I find really weird about this is, if this really is breaking their hearts,as it should, WHY IN THE WORLD would having prayers reintroduced into the schools be such a bad thing?! I think we’re desperate for an answer here, and introducing prayer seems like a fairly affordable , harmless and easily implemented idea. What could it hurt?! Why does it bother people SO much that they are willing to continue to risk the violent deaths of children , in order to “prove” that they are right? It really seems that what they are afraid of is that Christian morals and prayer might actually work and they will lose their real battle-to bully and silence the religious freedom of anyone who doesn’t believe as they do!

    • Hallelujah! You are a person of common sense and that is a gift from God. I would like to join you in this fight for freedom to pray and keep our right of free speech no matter what our religious principles and preferences are.
      We need the freedom to pray anywhere at anytime and it needs to start with our young children.
      After all there is freedom to smoke pot anywhere at anytime. I ask all the leaders of this democracy, “What will make our next generation strong and moral, prayer or smoking pot?”

      • I’m sorry Patricia, but I don’t believe that you understand what has been said in this article! You ARE allowed to pray anywhere, and anytime, THE ONLY OPPOSITION, is that the government should not be sponsoring any of the prayers or supporting it. Your right to the freedom of speech is still intact with you no matter what, and is not prohibited by the discussion made in Engel v. Vitale.

    • Karla, please tell me how being forced to do something, you do not believe in is not a bad thing. What would it hurt? I’ll tell you, How would you like your rights trampled to make somebody else happy, just so they wouldn’t have their feelings hurt?

      You’re talking about forcing “Christian Values” on non-Christians. How is that not harmful? I’ll answer that for you; You would be taking away that individuals right to freedom of religion, that’s how it’s harmful.

      Once the government starts taking peoples rights away, what comes next? I don’t want to see what happens then, because I know what happens next. America would become a two-bit dictatorship. If that’s what you want, go live somewhere else.

      • Exactly what is happening in schools now, Joe. Christian teachers are forced to teach things in violation to our own conscience and contrary to our faith. My rights and beliefs are being trampled, so that the “Cultural Values” of abortion, gender identity and sexual orientation can be advanced.
        And they’re being forced on a confused youth, regardless of their faith-informed opinions. It is harmful! You are correct. I am, in your words, “being forced to do something I don’t believe in”.
        In so doing, the government has established its own secular religion that is being forced upon teachers and students, and it flies in the face of and stands in direct conflict with others’ faith. My 1st amendment rights are now being violated by the state run schools. Your fears of what would happen next are coming to fruition.

        • Last commentor, righ on or in other words you spoke the truth of what is going wrong or going on in our Godless secular society God the real God is and has been replaced by man made gods all religions,( and Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with
          God through the death burial resurrection n ascension ),exclude God and replace him with self,all religions are accepted promoted and thrust down our throats and if we don’t bend to them we’re intolerant absent minded unloving and behind the times, but know this if you dare read the first Chapter of Romans in The Holy Bible and I pray God give you understanding and repentance before it’s too late.

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